Thread: Nitrous 101

YouTube - How Nitrous Works

What is Nitrous Oxide?
The usage of Nitrous Oxide to enhance engine performance dates way back to World War II where N2O was used in fighter planes to compensate for less oxygen in the atmosphere at high altitudes. One of the first uses of nitrous oxide in cars was by NASCAR racer Smokey Yunick who used nitrous oxide in his car to win races until it was discovered and banned by NASCAR.
Nitrous oxide is color-less and non-flammable. Apparently it smells somewhat sweet. Dentists use nitrous oxide to as anesthetic for patients, and its known as laughing gas in the dentistry circles. Its stored in the vehicle in liquid form in a canister.

Nitrous is one of the most common power adders. It's just as safe as a turbo or supercharger. Just as a Turbo set up needs supporting mods so does Nitrous. When installing a nitrous kit it is important that you have everything you need to get the most "bang for your buck". When you buy a typical kit for your car you get "everything" you need to spray....but unfortunatly you don't. Most common problems on a sprayed vehicle is leaning out or over timming. Their are a few very simple solutions for each of those that will save your vehicle and keep it running strong.


Types of Nitrous Setups

Their are multiple different types of nitrous setups such as a fogger; foggers are kits that use a nozzle that sprays into your intake kit before your throttle body. Plate kits are also commonly used, these are plates that sit between your throttle body and your intake manifold and spray in. I cannot mention the first two with out mentioning a direct port nitrous system. A direct port kit is a nitrous system that has a seperate nozzle for each cylinder. This allows best distribution in each cylinder. In addition to those, dual stage (two different sized shots) are another common way to gain power. Dual stages are setup up to run a smaller shot in lower gears and a larger shot up in the higher range. Thus allowing you a boost in power through all gears. By keeping the shot small in lower gears allows you to maintain traction yet still get the added power, and as you get to higher gears the seconde stage engauges and gives you a bigger power boost.


Dry and Wet

First, if you are running a dry shot (no fuel), it is recomended that you upgrade your injectors and have a tune for extra fuel. If you plan on running a wet shot (both fuel and n2o) it is recomended you upgrade your fuel pump in order not to generate a lean condition. It is also highly recomended that you run a FPSS (Fuel Pressure Safety Switch). This is a switch that you put in-line of your ground wire. It works like this; you set it a specific fuel pressure, and if it drops below that it will break the ground and turn off the nitrous, saving you from a lean condition.

Timing

Another common downer to running nitrous is that you have to remove timming when you spray. Alot of people think that mean your car will not be at it's full potential when on motor. Not true, using an ignition timming retard will allow you to cut timming while on spray and allow your car to run at it's full potential on motor. A rule of thumb to use it to cut a degree of timming for ever 50 shot, but depending on your setup and tune, that is not always nescessary. Running a colder pulg is also very important. What ever plug your are running now, once on nitrous you should use a step colder plug, which is similar to when you run boost. Now mind you with all those precautions it's not gaurenteed that your motor will not lean out or detonate, but it is something that can save you from potential problems.

Activation switches

What activates it? Some of you are interested in momentary buttons, but the most sucessful/common way to do it, or should I say the most popular ways to do it are as follows. WOT (wide open throttle) switches and TPS switches are the most efficent form of activation, as soon as your at full throttle that engauges your spray. Along with that a window switch is as a good idea, this keeps the nitrous from comming on too early ( you shouldn't spray below 3000rpms) and from staying on too long, it also prevents nitrous back fires if you miss a gear or hit the rev limiter.

Bottle Pressure

Bottle pressure is another signifigant factor, ideal bottle pressure is between 750psi-1100psi. If you pressure is to low, you will not get good enough flow out of the bottle. If too high, too much nitrous can be a problem as well. Thats why 90% of nitrous users monitor their bottle pressure and use a bottle heater or bottle blanket to keep their bottle at an ideal pressure and temperature.

How much can i spray

Nitrous is very similar to boost in many ways. It shares the same problems as long as the same rules. You don't push alot of boost through a stock motor, just like you don't spray alot of nitrous through a stock motor. You use what will work for your setup. Their is no such thing as a safe shot. It what will work for your setup. Depending on your compression and tune rules what size shot to run. Just remember nitrous is an effective power adder and when used right and safely can be the ultimate source of power for your vehicle....



How does Nitrous Oxide work?
So how exactly does injecting nitrous oxide into the engine help? Combustion is basically igniting a mixture of oxygen and fuel in a combustion chamber with a sparkplug. The resulting explosion produces power. What happens is a nitrous oxide injection system pumps nitrous oxide into an engines intake system. At 296 degrees Celsius, the nitrous oxide breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen. The loose oxygen atom is burned together with the combustion. More oxygen = more power. Its as simple as that.
Of course there are some issues with the proportion of fuel and air and pre-mature detonation that well look at later. Also, why not just inject oxygen instead of nitrous oxide since what we need is the oxygen anyway? Pure oxygen would result in too wild a combustion, resulting in a blown engine. This is because the nitrogen atoms in the nitrous oxide have a function as well. The nitrogen atoms released have a cooling effect on the combustion temperature. It absorbs the heat and helps carry it away.
Nitrous oxide also cools the intake temperature by 60 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit and every 10 degrees Fahrenheit reduction in temperature gives you about 1% horsepower gains. So on top of the extra power provided by the extra oxygen, you get another 6-7% horsepower gains from the cooling effect. In one of the Sepang Drag Battle rounds, the winning Proton Satria used nitrous oxide to cool the intake air instead of an intercooler. That way, you save weight and reduce the lag that you get when you have to pass [COLOR=#686868! important][COLOR=#686868! important]turbocharged[/color][/color] air through the passages inside an intercooler.


Is Nitrous Oxide Safe?

With the increased power being created, how does one control the process so that no engine blown cases will happen? Using wet nitrous shot kits is one way, as it mixes the additional fuel necessary to keep the air-fuel mixture balanced. Ignition controllers are also sometimes installed to retard the spark timing when nitrous oxide is being used, to prevent premature detonation, also known as knocking or pinging. Higher octane fuel should also be used.
Balancing the air-fuel mixture with the extra oxygen provided by nitrous oxide is also a tricky thing. Too lean and youll get detonation problems which will damage the engine. Too rich and youll lose power. But its all fun, tuning your car to the maximum performance. Good learning process.


A normal Wet kit



1. Bottle with mounting brackets
2. Fuel line T
3. Fuel solenoid
4. Fogger tip
5. Bottle Pressure gauge (can go under the hood or connected to your bottle)
6. Nitrous solenoid
7. Purge solenoid <- (dont need)
8. 3 Foot line to gauge
9. 15 Foot line from bottle
10. Full throttle switch aka WOT switch
11. NOS shot button <- not needed if your using the WOT switch
12. On/off arming switch
13. Relay for solenoids

Nice write-up..

i think this goes here
but

Developing developments

In talking with NX about the racing use of nitrous
On my hybrid motor [combo b15 and b16 parts]
They squelched the idea of even a 100hp dp system on an older motor without forged pistons
I’ll say it again, do not go over a 75 shot on an engine without forged pistons says NX

Now we all know you can do a 100 shot, many people have [at least a few lol]
But that’s what they said

In addition, they felt a 75 shot progressively applied thru a thermoplastic, heat insulating manifold [b16 mani or 2j mani for b15] could cut as much as 1sec from ¼ mile times

Without forged pistons
They suggested a simple single nozzle [well controlled] 75 shot
Now that’s what they said
If the car goes 13s na
My, my, that’s 12s
Them’s some tall orders

Thanks for the info, I've been pondering spraying over a FI build due to money & the auto to 6spd swap!

Why forged pistons for anything over a 75 shot?

We all know a 100 shot has been done before, just curious as to why NX recommended this.

cya recomendation
for legal reasons
i guess
very conservative group

BTW
how long does a 10lb bottle last
That depends on the level of power being produced. The formula for calculating your nitrous usage is: 0.8 lbs N2O X 10 seconds = 100 horsepower. I.E. If your system is jetted for 100 horsepower it will use 0.8 lbs of nitrous for every 10 seconds of usage.

What are some general rules for creating the most horsepower without damaging anything?
A. Generally speaking the amount of power that can be created with nitrous is almost limitless. To avoid a catastrophe, the internal components of the engine must match the amount of power that is going to be generated. The use of proper air/fuel ratios is essential and the quality of the nitrous system is paramount.

So the safest amount for a stock B15 besides you know I/H/E will be a 75 shot?

Originally Posted by unex-SPEC-ted

So the safest amount for a stock B15 besides you know I/H/E will be a 75 shot?

that is what they recommend
on an efi motor they claim no ign retard or race gas is necessary ether, at these levels on their kits
[to go higher forged pistons and direct injection with timing retard is recommended]


i have difficulty believing that
at least at 1st [checked by reading plugs] i would retard timing 2*, use race gas and plugs two steps colder
till i was sure there was no detonation, even on a 75 shot

edit
i am referencing nitrous express other companies may have different opinions

Originally Posted by yogi b

that is what they recommend
on an efi motor they claim no ign retard or race gas is necessary ether, at these levels on their kits
[to go higher forged pistons and direct injection with timing retard is recommended]


i have difficulty believing that
at least at 1st [checked by reading plugs] i would retard timing 2*, use race gas and plugs two steps colder
till i was sure there was no detonation, even on a 75 shot

edit
i am referencing nitrous express other companies may have different opinions

Agree. For us more than them because were both higher compression.

if thats the case i dont trust nx's pussy footing answers.

they have always been cool and knowledgable when ive talked to them but if they told me that on the phone i would lol then hang up and call someone else.

Originally Posted by pat

if thats the case i dont trust nx's pussy footing answers.

they have always been cool and knowledgable when ive talked to them but if they told me that on the phone i would lol then hang up and call someone else.

i think they have to worry about lawsuits now
some of this info also comes from their little used forum, so perhaps like their FAQ, things need to be more conservative in print

when pushed they admitted the extra emergency solenoid was prob not necessary,
they claim the purge is worth a tenth in the 1/4, not sure of that ether

i figure the more i call them, and actually use the system, the more radical they will get
[i need to run a 100 shot]



my big stumbling block is the 400 dollar controller that makes this work

i'l try posting on the forum, lets see the answer in print

lets try
i want to run a 100 shot on my sentra 2.5l engine with 10.5 cr and stock pistons
what do you suggest?
good noobie question?
lol

show the pic of you wrinkling your slicks all up and i bet they give you some time of day. but still, i understand them being conservative but saying only a 75 shot is hilarious and not the case. you should have saved some money and just went with a stock ass qr just to see how much nitrous it would safely take because that still hasnt been done. and no one is doing it. girls and their turtles rule the roost.

i have been a turtle and a sissy for years now lol
worse i really bungled this build as you will see, i was way too under financed to pull off three projects at once


making do,
a 50 shot [which is what i was going to use in the 1st sec of the 100 shot progressive] can be done with out all the fancy stuff
[now when pat sees the 50 shot, he'll laugh and know it ain't happening, cause on my strips, a 12 sec car is likely to be the slowest car there. this car will run low 15s na, maybe 14.9s lol. going to take a lot of nitrous to even approach 12 sec times. in the past showing up in a sentra, let alone one with a flower on the hood, was compensated by the v6 under that hood. now,omg]

then it's approx numbers
200 for orisis, to be able retard timing
400 for max4 to be tied in to o2 sensor for progressive use and safety n2o shut off
200 for innovative or similar o2 controller

both nitrous kits together cost me less than 500 on craigs list and the nx one came with new servos
i'm not using the back up solinoid [n2o] nor the fuel pressure safety switch
just the tie in to afr on the max 4

purge does help, I've tried launching with and without it and it seems like there is a slight hesitation when I don't purge, you have to remember you are dumping extra fuel into the motor too and extra fuel without extra o2 is going to bog you down a little. this is actually how i test my fuel solenoid, i drive down the road with the bottle closed, nail it and flip the switch on and off a few times to make sure it bogs down, if it doesn't then i have a problem


find someone with consult and retard up to 2 deg. it should only be like $40

thanks
nx claims it's worth a tenth[in the 1/4]

i'm down to the details now, getting the wiring and switch panel planning done and what to use for a replacement fuel line

i'm going to try what Adam suggested, the orisis cable, at least i'll have some control over timing

a couple of sets of 2 steps colder copper plugs and i can tune afr with the jets


i also went up to visit the OCNKA[the old cronies, nitrous, knowing, association]. thats a joke people, its just the old folks at paradise [thats dragstrip, not adult maintenance home, lol]
they too, laughed at the recommendations, and quickly pointed out, nx recommends that because the average person will not use race gas nor retard their timing

"if you retard 2-4*, use 110 octane unleaded race gas, and 2 steps colder copper plugs,[gapped .028-.032"] a 100 shot is fine.
the limiting factor is the vaporization and distribution of the n20/fuel mixture by the nozzle and manifold"

this seems more realistic

osirus can only do as much as consult i believe

Originally Posted by Circuit00C

osirus can only do as much as consult i believe

I think you may be missing the point.

Not only do you NOT have to drive to a dealership, after adjusting your timing yourself (say at $40 per adjustment with the dealer) after doing it 6 times you have already paid for the Cipher cable. Plus, I just hooked up my Innovate LC-1 to work in conjunction with the cipher cable in order to datalog. Don't think you can do that with a consult.

I was playing with my timing with the cipher cable thinking it would only adjust -/+ 2 degrees, but it went to -3. Not sure if it would actually retard that much but I'll know when I play with it more.

ah pat
somtimes i think he is kidding and i don't listen

this time i thought it was foolish to post up a pic of me wrinkling those slicks
but dammit he was right
new answers: from the NX forum
quote
yogi b wrote:

my questions are
1] how do i pick jets for a 90 shot
2] using the maximizer 4, to lessen the shock, do i bring this in, over about 2sec, starting about 30%?
3] i can retard the timing up to 2* [with orisis], run 2 steps colder, copper plugs and use unleaded race gas, will this be a safe system with oem pistons and these specs?

thank you kindly
my goal is high 12s


1]41N, 24F
2]yes that will work fine
3]yes, pull 2-3deg of timing and go 2 steps colder on the plugs.

the problem with nitrous on a sentra is no one had published the breaking point on nitrous due to pure power.... Well I'm about to push it a bit with a 140 shot, progressively controlled. 300whp, or low 12's is the goal

woot