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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So the user "rockwood" has been parting out a B15 since last year: 2004 Sentra SE-R Spec V part out - B15sentra.net - Nissan Sentra Forum

Since I'm in California, I needed an OEM header with the pre-cat still intact to pass emissions. I emailed [email protected] on June 15th, and it was a guy named "Steve Rockwood". He told me to send funds to [email protected], which was another guy named "Martin Gonzalez". Found that out when I got my header in on Thursday, June 21st.

The whole header had an odd brown color to it, but I figured maybe it's because the header had a good amount of miles on it. On the 21st, I finished up my final exam. Come Friday and Saturday which were my workdays. I didn't get started until Sunday after my dayshift.

I tried hand-screwing the O2 sensor into the bung hole, but when the O2 sensor went in half-way, it sort of popped out of the threads. There was a good amount of black dust on the threads, but I had no idea what it was. I looked inside, and a part of the thread looked like it was chipped off. After trying a few times, I just tightened it to where it's snug but didn't fall off the threads.

I took out my header with the gutted pre-cat, and started putting in the one I bought from "rockwood". It was getting dark, and quiet hours were in effect (I live in a townhouse). I resumed work on Monday morning, and was able to get the car out by noon.

I went to the same smog test station (free re-test within 30 days). I found out that I got the worst test rating out of the three times that I tested my car (5/12, 5/20, 6/27). Between the first and second tests, I replaced my O2 sensor and did an oil change. Between the second and third tests, I replaced my header with the one I bought from "rockwood". For me to get the worst rating with the pre-cat baffled me.

I came to a quick conclusion that the header is too rusted for use, and decided to start a Paypal dispute without contacting "rockwood" first. I did so because I knew he would start making up excuses anyways.

I think it was the next day when "Steve Rockwood" asked me what's going on. I told him that the O2 sensor hole's threads are damaged and the pre-cat is shot. Then he asked for more than 5 pictures of the damned thing, telling me that I'm taking the picture wrong and the wrong angles, et cetera. From what my friends have told me, the first couple of pictures were just fine.

After sending "Steve Rockwood" a number of pictures, this is what he has told me:

I've cc'd Martin as well, since he's got a stake in it.

Here's the problems I see:

1. You had the item for 6 days before just making the claim. No email, no complaints to me, just a claim out of nowhere. I honestly can't say for sure what happened during that time.
2. I see evidence of an off center O2 sensor. If you look at the top of the last picture you sent, the way the metal is worn on the bung on just one side, and the other pictures show crossing marks on the threads.
3. Attached is a picture of the O2 sensor that came out of the hole only minutes before it was shipped, and there is no evidence of galling, cross-threading, or otherwise. As mangled as those threads look, the O2 sensor should have similarly messed up threads, which it doesn't.

So, while I'd like to give you your money back, I can't help but wonder how that damage got there. Martin noticed no problems with the thread when removing the O2 sensor and shipping, yet there they are.

Additionally, your failed smog is likely because of inaccurate O2 sensor readings from a cross threaded sensor. If you look at the original picture of the item:

http://image87.webshots.com/87/2/17/16/2459217160032873972QdVbLA_ph.jpg

You'll see none of the exhaust leak stains that are present in your pictures. If the O2 sensor has a leak next to it, your car is going to be running rich, since it will detect atmospheric oxygen, and think your engine's running lean when it isn't. Out of curiosity, what were your failed smog numbers? If you could attach a copy of the failed smog, I would appreciate it.

At this time, I can't see how we are responsible for the damage to the manifold.

Thanks,

Steve
1.) As I've said before, I was busy with school and work. Didn't get started until Sunday evening. This guy is giving me crap because I didn't get started right away, basically.
2.) Yes, it's cross-threaded because there's corrosion in the hole, causing the threads to be damaged.
3.) This guy attached his picture of his old O2 sensor in the email, which was different from the one in the hyperlink. Why would he put a new O2 sensor in his old header that he's parting out? An upstream O2 sensor costs $100+, so that raised even more questions and doubts from me.

I basically told him this, along with my test results for smog. This is his reply...

If the threads were that mangled when the O2 sensor was removed, it would look more like this:

http://www.filtsai.com/forester/wrx_struts/stripped_bolt.jpg

Instead, it has the normal shiny spot on the load side of the thread (when you tighten a bolt, it loads one side of the thread only). There is friction on threads, so the rust will be gone there. You can see the threads are still perfectly serviceable, and need no cleaning. That bung is mangled beyond recognition. If the threads corroded at the bottom like you say, why would they be mangled, with crosswise thread marks in them at the top? Like I said, the evidence in the pictures tells me that you tightened a cross-threaded O2 sensor, then just kept on cranking all the way down.

There is an exhaust leak. The exhaust stains in your picture all around that bung speak for themselves. Those stains do not exist in the original picture.

I understand that you have to work, and needed time to install, but the fact remains that you had it for 6 days, installed it, used it, then are now complaining about something being broken. Would you give someone a refund on something they had for 6 days, installed, used, and then made a claim without a single word in the interim? If you still had a perfectly good O2 sensor that came out of the hole your buyer is saying was mangled when he got it, would you believe him?

I'm sorry, but I can't take responsibility for those threads.

Regards,
I don't think this guy understands that it was the damaged threads in the bung hole that caused the cross-threading. If I was able to exchange my O2 sensors perfectly fine on my own header between my first and second smog test, how likely is it that I would cross-thread the bung hole on the header that I bought? Doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO.

He said there's an exhaust leak, so I looked at the bung hole closely. I thought to myself, "Maybe I didn't tighten it enough?" So after close inspection, the exhaust leak came from the hole caused by the corrosion on the bung weld. This @sshole has been blaming me the whole time, when it's actually the defective part that he decided to sell because he couldn't pass California smog with it as well (which would explain why he had a new O2 sensor on the header in the hyperlinked picture).

I told him about it, and hasn't replied to me for three days. Funny how he accuses me of making stuff up within the six days that I had my header, and yet he can't take five minutes of his time to write up an email about the rusted-off hole within three days. Pretty self-righteous guy, this "rockwood" person.

So there you have it. My fairly negative review of this seller "rockwood". Feel free to ask more questions, folks.
 

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Honestly, I've known Martin and Steve for almost 10 years, and quite frankly, I would be SHOCKED if either of them cheated someone in any way.. especially Steve. Both of these guys are stand-up folks in the B13/B14 SE-R community, and some of the key players that help with events such as the SE-R Convention, etc..

It is possible to damage a sensor/o2 bung if you don't use anti-seize compound on the threads.. I've seen it done (and done it myself) several times. You get the sensor halfway in, and it just stops. Then, you damage the threads from there, no matter what you try to do. If you have a sensor that's leaking, it WILL throw off your emissions test.

Can you post a picture of the "rust"? Some stainless can have scaling, and discoloration, but I've never seen a header "rust" unless it's mild steel.

I'm not saying that it's not possible that they sent you a damaged part.. I just find it highly unlikely, given the positive reputation that these two guys have in the community.

Travis
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Honestly, I've known Martin and Steve for almost 10 years, and quite frankly, I would be SHOCKED if either of them cheated someone in any way.. especially Steve. Both of these guys are stand-up folks in the B13/B14 SE-R community, and some of the key players that help with events such as the SE-R Convention, etc..

It is possible to damage a sensor/o2 bung if you don't use anti-seize compound on the threads.. I've seen it done (and done it myself) several times. You get the sensor halfway in, and it just stops. Then, you damage the threads from there, no matter what you try to do. If you have a sensor that's leaking, it WILL throw off your emissions test.

Can you post a picture of the "rust"? Some stainless can have scaling, and discoloration, but I've never seen a header "rust" unless it's mild steel.

I'm not saying that it's not possible that they sent you a damaged part.. I just find it highly unlikely, given the positive reputation that these two guys have in the community.

Travis
Well that's nice that they did a lot for the community, but I don't understand why they would have to send me a defective part.

Here's a good picture of the damaged area:



Some people have told me that it's difficult to see. I'm going to take another picture of it with floss going through the hole in the bung weld.

EDIT: Here's me flossing the damn thing.

 

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I see the hole in the weld.. Looks like the o2 bung threads are torn up pretty good, too.

I can only assume that they didn't see this before sending it off.. Is it possible that you damaged the threads by not using anti-seize when you put your sensor in?

If it was me, I would just take the thing back, and refund your money at this point. But, they might look at it differently. If the threads weren't damaged, you could just put a small bead over the open hole, and it would probably work fine. So, I dunno.. I know what I would do in this situation, just to avoid the negative exposure.

Travis
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I see the hole in the weld.. Looks like the o2 bung threads are torn up pretty good, too.

I can only assume that they didn't see this before sending it off.. Is it possible that you damaged the threads by not using anti-seize when you put your sensor in?

If it was me, I would just take the thing back, and refund your money at this point. But, they might look at it differently. If the threads weren't damaged, you could just put a small bead over the open hole, and it would probably work fine. So, I dunno.. I know what I would do in this situation, just to avoid the negative exposure.

Travis
Parts of the threads have corroded off, causing me to cross-thread the O2 sensor. That's why some of the threads look so jagged and rough.

I'd love to send it back. The problem is that I'm moving to North Carolina on the 15th. They're just making things really difficult and causing a huge headache on my part, lol.
 

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Good luck getting your money back because that is messed up.

That pic and if you post one with the floss going through will be tough to argue with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good luck getting your money back because that is messed up.

That pic and if you post one with the floss going through will be tough to argue with.
Thanks mang. I just don't like getting my hard-earned money robbed because I've been trying to pass smog the legal way.

I sent him the picture of the hole, but I JUST took the flossing picture. Either way, he hasn't responded in a few days. Funny how he thinks six days is a long period of time to swap headers, lol.
 

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I understand what your saying but you should've checked it before the install.
 

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Parts of the threads have corroded off, causing me to cross-thread the O2 sensor. That's why some of the threads look so jagged and rough.

I'd love to send it back. The problem is that I'm moving to North Carolina on the 15th. They're just making things really difficult and causing a huge headache on my part, lol.
Unfortunately, used headers/o2 sensors can sometimes be difficult. For some reason, they can look decent, but as soon as you thread the sensor in, and start to tighten it, the threads can bind up. That's why new sensors these days come with anti-seize on the threads already.

But, the hole in the weld is tough to deny.. They should refund you for the header. Where is the for sale thread? Do you have a link?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Unfortunately, used headers/o2 sensors can sometimes be difficult. For some reason, they can look decent, but as soon as you thread the sensor in, and start to tighten it, the threads can bind up. That's why new sensors these days come with anti-seize on the threads already.

But, the hole in the weld is tough to deny.. They should refund you for the header. Where is the for sale thread? Do you have a link?
Yep, my Bosch O2 sensors had anti-seize on it already.

The original sale thread is located here: 2004 Sentra SE-R Spec V part out - B15sentra.net - Nissan Sentra Forum

There's also another one on B15U by Martin Gonzales here: http://www.b15u.com/parts-sale/12558-2004-sentra-se-r-spec-v-part-out.html
 

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Honestly, if the I were the seller and the issue was only the 'crossed threaded bung', I wouldn't have refunded your money. You should have inspected the bung before threading the sensor.

But the hole in the bung is a different matter. After that pic, I would have accepted the loss and refunded you.

You are right. They fought about the cross threading, but after showing them a rusted out hole, they go silent....lol

I hate when sellers can't man up and admit 'damn, didn't know that was there. Let's work something out.'

They could atleast say, 'instead of mailing that thing back, I could send you the money to weld in a new one.' or something like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh guys, Martin Gonzalez decided to post on his own sales thread instead of emailing me back. Check it out:


WOW!

I'll reply this one time and if you really have a gripe and want to call me out in front of everyone, feel free to start another thread - I have nothing to hide.

My friend Steve and I are SR20 guys who bought this 04 Spec together for some parts we needed and then started selling the rest of the parts. There are a few B15 forums, so he posted threads on a couple and I started the one on here. Every thread clearly states that some of the parts are in Corona, CA and some are in San Diego, CA - yeah, we don't live together.

I think we've been selling parts off this car for over a year now and have not had a single issue with anyone on here or any of the other forums until this.

So please everyone, please look for all of my and Steve's posts on this and all the other B15 and SR20 related forums around. I only go by martin_g34 and Steve goes by Rockwood, though I think on G20.net and a couple other ones he is still under hotshts20.

I will hold all my comments on the details of this situation until it is resolved with the buyer. Thanks for your understanding.
Resolved? You just closed the dispute on me you jerk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Honestly, if the I were the seller and the issue was only the 'crossed threaded bung', I wouldn't have refunded your money. You should have inspected the bung before threading the sensor.

But the hole in the bung is a different matter. After that pic, I would have accepted the loss and refunded you.

You are right. They fought about the cross threading, but after showing them a rusted out hole, they go silent....lol

I hate when sellers can't man up and admit 'damn, didn't know that was there. Let's work something out.'

They could atleast say, 'instead of mailing that thing back, I could send you the money to weld in a new one.' or something like that.
There was some black stuff on the threads that I dusted and wiped off. Saw that they were jagged and rough, but decided to try and hand-screw it in lightly. Guess I shouldn't have done that.
 

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I think that they are pissed that you didn't try to work it out before the paypal dispute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think that they are pissed that you didn't try to work it out before the paypal dispute.
I don't Paypal often to buy things from private sellers. But I thought the whole point was to settle a dispute via their dispute center.
 

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It is. But if I am not mistaken, it brings alot of immediate negativity to the sellers.

That is why on ebay, sellers would plead with buyers that if they have ANY issues, contact them FIRST.

Again, they are simply pissed and when he says working things out, he is not talking with/about you. He is talking about paypal.

Don't be surprised if they make up some crap and feed it to paypal to get out of refunding you. Contact paypal and get your side of the story as well as the new 'hole' pics to them.

You were warned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
It is. But if I am not mistaken, it brings alot of immediate negativity to the sellers.

That is why on ebay, sellers would plead with buyers that if they have ANY issues, contact them FIRST.

Again, they are simply pissed and when he says working things out, he is not talking with/about you. He is talking about paypal.

Don't be surprised if they make up some crap and feed it to paypal to get out of refunding you. Contact paypal and get your side of the story as well as the new 'hole' pics to them.

You were warned.
Ah I see. I guess that would be bad for them. But at this point, I can't honestly say that I'm empathetic, lol.

Well I did use the dispute center and linked the pictures of the damages, so I think I'll be okay.

EDIT: Also, when do you think I should escalate the dispute to Paypal claim?
 

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Man, what this has turned into.

I'm glad some of you folks on here know who were are so you know we're not the crooks this guy is accusing us to be.

I took the O2 off the header hours before it was shipped and here is a pic of the O2:



Here is a pic of the manifold from the For Sale thead:



Here's our case:

Threads = I'm pretty sure the pics can do all the talking on this issue.

Rust = When we bought this car we drove it on and off the trailer and into the garage and that was the last of it. We never even had to smog it since we knew the owner and she just non-op'ed it after we took it off her hands. But I will say that the car did not sound like it had an exhaust leak when we drove it. The car was a CA car all of its life and we even sold the secondary with zero rust complaints.


Am I really responsible here?

Is it also fair to call me a crook and that I am consciously selling "defective" parts? We barely even used this car when we bought it and like I said, we sold the secondary with no complaints.


Steve and I have been going back and forth with radeux via email and it upsets me that he is trying to make it seem like we "shut-up" after the rust issue. NO! A lot of you guys know we race and when you go to Willow Springs you are lucky to have cell phone service - let alone internet. We had already sent radeux the pics I have posted here which deal with both of his complaints. I didn't even make a decision on the claim until a few hours ago.

We did not disappear and I did not run away in the middle of a dispute. The last email Steve sent to this guys was on 6/30. I don't see where this guy is coming from trying to call us out and make us look bad. I wish we could've just kept this between us, but no, we have to air everything out and waste more time.
 
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