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Discussion Starter #1
What’s up everyone.. I’m about to modify my phaser on the QR25DE because all QR owners already know about all the issues of this motor. It’s not oil psi, it’s not the tensioner, it’s not the solenoid.... these are all misconceptions! I personally saw the phaser SHIFTING from retard to advance and make the SAME tick sound as it did so while I turned the crank with a wrench. No oil pressure because I’m using a wrench ok and my TENSIONER’S plunger is modified so that it cannot be pushed back into its housing by chain slack so that possibility was resolved way before this subject matter. Everything is brand new and freshly built and NOTE: the (new) phaser is aftermarket so now I have discrepancy because I should have bought an oem phaser. The motor is a 20psi turbo build and we also have to consider the upgraded valve springs which are way stiffer than the oem springs and this will also put stress on the phaser’s locking pin because the pin has to hold the tension of the harder valve springs which make the cam harder to rotate. I need a professional’s advice as to will a NEW OEM phaser gear handle this kind of tension and if not, is there anything anyone has done besides priming the engine for oil psi? Also what’s your experience with an aftermarket phaser? I have a few ideas I’m about to try on the phaser gear but I want to know YOUR thoughts and experience first!
 

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Personally I've always primed the oil til the light goes out and then let it start. As for timing components always use oem. I've heard of aftermarket phasers failing. So I've never bothered with them. Even tho the price might sound better.

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Yeah the phaser is bleeding out when it sits. Priming would be the only option without replacing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
TRITTON: what does it take to fail an oem phaser? How much ware & tare and how much boost can an oem take before it starts to fail, with your exp.. I know this is only a dry start condition but that’s only up to the pin to keep it locked during startup, I’m curious to see pics of a mangled (OEM) phaser because my oem phaser looks great on the inside but the teeth are baaad and the chain was wayyyy longer so I can’t say that the oem phaser was making the sounds I heard when I decided to do my chain kit. The locking pin in the oem phaser is good and the slot for the pin only has a tiny scar on the edge. God I can’twait to open the fake phaser.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@ sus: yea it is leaking bcs it’ll make noise on startup just seconds after shutting engine off, but then again that’s up to the pin to keep the phaser locked and it should fall back into locking position in a split second bcs the crank turns clock wise and the locking pin is counter clock. The after market phaser has got to be a really poor design. I just have not seen any pictures of an (open) or failing A/M phaser. I’m compelled to use my old phaser with the new gear ⚙ off the new one. I’m almost under the impression that the cheap phaser does not have a locking mechanism bcs on the outside of it., there’s not that
(round impression) which is the insert for the locking pin to fall into place. I’ll post the image.
 

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On my personal build even after changing to an OEM phaser nothing changed, the sound was still there. My engine had maybe 10k on it at the time. While working at 2j years ago we thought the phaser was the issue and in some cases I'm sure it is but, One thing to think about especially on rebuilt engines... The chains are sold as one size, maybe a decked head and block taking material away could cause additional slack in the chain. Now I know not much material is taken off unless it's really fucked up, but still something to think about. A few other reason the sound is there is due to either a missing or broken upper chain guide. I have replaced multiples of those and the same sound went away. If your not using OEM chain guides, that can also make this sound. Honestly after all of it I felt like I was chasing a ghost bc it wasn't always the same part, but the sound was always the same. Still baffles my mind.

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Thats true I remember Yogi B going through head gasket issues. The problem was head gasket size. Even a mm or less made a difference in chain slack at the tensioner. I would also change the tensioner with oem just because, which by the way seems to be too small and weak for the big turbo builds. but oh well.. Still, ALWAYS go oem with internal timing parts.
 

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I think a small bump in oil pressure would help at idle, I've been meaning to find metal shim materiel to make a spacer for the oil pressure valve thingy.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
that’s really great info thanks!! The guy who built it that I bought it from said there’s nothing that can be done.🤔 although he never replaced the oem phaser and it was really worn out when I opened up the motor to do a new chain kit. I also modded the chain tensioner so that there’s never slack even when in rest position. You may have a point, but when I was done with the whole chain kit job with the aftermarket phaser, the next day on a cold dry start, it did not make the noise... it was just a quick little tick and that’s it. I was very happy with that but over a short period of time, here we go again and I’ve been priming since. So obviously SOMETHING I did worked for a while but it has to be something that has worn out causing the same noise so we KNOW it’s chain kit related... nothing I can think of that would downgrade in quality in such a short time other than the phaser or the chain and I’ve not put more than a few hundred miles since then. I would consider the solenoid but why would it be faulty, and then not faulty, and then faulty again you know... but great insight.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
yes, on the chain tensioner there is the steel plunger that is pushed out by the oil psi under engine running conditions and there is also a spring that applies pressure for when there is no oil psi like for a cold dry start. However, even with the spring’s assistance, not only is it not strong enough to resist the chain slack that (pushes the plunger back into its housing) which allows the chain to dance and rattle. What I did was take the tensioner out, pull out the plunger and I put a small aluminum piece of metal inside the hollow plunger and slid it back into the tensioner housing with the same spring that goes in there. What this does is work as a “stopper” and also increase the spring tension. I had to measure some stuff but once it was all back together, the plunger can be pushed back in but only a very little bit of play in & out, that’s all it moves now. Even without any oil psi as all the plunger is efficient on it’s own and there’s still room inside the plunger for oil to be delivered from the oil nozzle inside the tensioner. You’ll have to grind or file a “new” groove on the plunger so that the thumbtack or locking pin can hold the plunger in place for installation because the original groove is located on the very tip of the plunger and doing this mod “correctly measured” will only let the plunger go back in about half way. Just make sure you do not grind too far into the plunger because you’ll cut through it. I have a YouTube video on the entire fabrication with alternative explanations. Idk if I can do links on here or not I’m new but my channel is AUTOBODYEVERYTHING.
 

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Just a thought, everyone is tracking that there is an updated version of the phaser right?
 

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Just a thought, everyone is tracking that there is an updated version of the phaser right?
Since when?

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